Immerse

For my 60 minutes of solitude with God I focused o...

2010-03-27T11:29:07.698-05:00

For my 60 minutes of solitude with God I focused on Getting a Grip on Anxiety. As a college student, I thought "I can't possibly spend a whole hour alone, with my phone and computer off, reading and listening to God. I have too much to study, too much to review." With so many unknowns quickly approaching me, I thought I would be able to control my anxiety better by doing, not stopping. This stopping, listening, and talking was a much needed reconnection that my inner self was longing for. The hour flew by and I feel so refreshed even though I don't have any answers to my future. I realized that God wants me to trust him with the unknown. In giving that trust, I must trust him to reveal his plan to me in his perfect time. This is not necessarily now when I want to know. Thank you for encouraging me to take this dare of solitude with God. It has helped me refocus on the present and allowing God to control the future.

I'm so grateful that you took time to rest in ...

2010-03-27T09:29:36.724-05:00

I'm so grateful that you took time to rest in this study! satan's ploy will be to move you away from what you have experienced and chosen to believe! This is the beauty of taking consistent time to get away and focus on what God says concerning your life. That time with God helps to reorient/refocus us on what really matters and what the truth really is. Thanks again for sharing this with us. Tim

I did 60 minutes of solitude with God on His great...

2010-03-23T14:34:20.971-05:00

I did 60 minutes of solitude with God on His greatness. I was reminded of how awesome it is that the God who created the universe(the glorious mountains, vast oceans, put the stars in the sky and everything in and on this earth)cares for ME. He has made me for a special purpose by His own hand. He knows me and He loves me just as I am...sin and all! He has made a way for me to be with Him through the blood of Jesus. I have also learned that I can trust our great and awesome God to reveal to me the sin in my life that keeps me from receiving His blessings. I can trust Him to deliver me from my worries/hurts and the false security in my life; for all of that is just temporary. God was, is and always shall be. I need to allow Him to take me into his loving arms and draw me close, for that is where I long to be. The song that we sang in service on Sunday reminds me of my lesson today (You Hold Me Now). It really moved me on Sunday and I am still basking in the truth that one day all of this stuff we are going through here on this earth will pass and we will be with Him. There will be no weeping, hurt, or pain and the sick will be healed and we won't have to feel like we need to hide our hurts. That, to me, is so totally awesome and I am counting on that promise.

Question re: Paul's "third heaven".....

2009-11-01T22:22:19.686-06:00

Question re: Paul's "third heaven"...
please explain.

"Choosing Family First" is really hard f...

2009-10-21T14:18:23.470-05:00

"Choosing Family First" is really hard for me because if I wasn't related to them by blood I would probably never speak to them again. I love them, but they are negative and the relationship with them is so one-sided: I give, and they take. It is so difficult. Lord help me to LOVE THEM FIRST!

"...please forgive if my post seems that way....

2009-09-18T10:49:57.974-05:00

"...please forgive if my post seems that way." Well, since you asked. :-)

You're right: we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the Bible speaks so much to the believer, that we are to forgive. I can't hold myself responsible for another person to repent and ask me forgiveness, but I can choose to forgive that person. Then if they do come and ask my forgiveness, I can say, "Since God forgave me so much, I have already forgiven you."

In passages like Colossians 3:13, Matthew 6:12, 6:14-15, 9:2, 18:35, Mark 11:25, Luke 6:37, 11:4, and John 20:23, it just seems like the emphasis is not on the person who wronged me asking for forgiveness, but on me forgiving them.

I'm not going to wait for a person to ask for me to forgive them.

Couple of items- One- Sorry about the reference ...

2009-09-18T09:19:58.524-05:00

Couple of items-

One- Sorry about the reference to the "other chapter" in Genesis---I forgot the reference was to the Ex chapter you mentioned...Exodus 32.

I have trouble with forgiveness if there is no desire to be forgiven....too much "if I am only a good person" type mentality that a desire for forgiveness is not required for forgiveness. Yes, Jesus forgives....quickly, readily, completely.....but only to those desirous. Otherwise, we do little in convincing folks to become Christ followers....they would already be forgiven? Sorry to speculate, but those folks having a desire for forgiveness really fit more with forgiveness as it is seen in others places in the Bible in my view. We will have to agree to disagree. :)

Yes, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us........but did not forgive us! That is a free will choice that we make, I am convinced. Not something that anyone else can do for us...through prayer for us (Stephen), taking us to Church (lowering through ceiling).....the paralytic/stoners must come to realization they need forgiveness...I believe. Dying for us does not mean forgiving us all (desirous and nondesirous).....but yet he is faithful and just to forgive....

As far as withholding forgiveness, please reread my first post. I forgive in situations that are really hard to forgive in...I think if someone asks and I do not forgive I WOULD be putting myself in the unmerciful servant position....but I do not think that anyone can speculate that I would be in that position by not forgiving someone who does not desire it or ask for it.

Yes, Christ died for us while we were sinners (Rom 5:8) but I do not think that equates to forgiving us all? If so, no one has any responsibility for themselves to make any decisions about who they will follow/trust/desire and we are all simply "OK". I think there is some danger in the "let's just forgive everybody" rountine. We may not be truly Christ-like....yes, God is merciful, but also just. I think there are dangers with going either direction too far....just my opinion.

Whew. My first experience blogging. Sorry to overwhelm with the 9 points....won't do that again. I ask that my thoughts only being used for people reading in this blog---and not as some specific sermon point (eg "some anon poster on the blog said this...can you believe it!! :0) :) Sometimes, I know, emails/blogs can seem confrontational---please forgive if my post seems that way. Thanks for your recent thoughts!

Let me first invite you to give me or Tim a call i...

2009-09-18T08:26:32.119-05:00

Let me first invite you to give me or Tim a call if this is going to keep going, because trying to answer nine points at the same time is difficult in this setting. It'd be better to talk over coffee or something.

So I'm not going to answer you point by point here, but I will say a couple things.

First, let's stick with what the Bible says. It never says the paralytic asks or even desires to be forgiven. The woman caught in adultery (Luke 8) never asks to be forgiven. You wrote, "The order for forgiveness seems always there is an 'ask' and then a 'forgive'....let me know if you see it other ways in the Bible." Here are two examples where there is no ask, and we don't know of a desire to be forgiven. For all we know, the friends of the paralytic were more interested in Jesus healing their friend so they didn't have to carry him around any more. Don't speculate to support your view. So I'm going to reassert that there are instances in which forgiveness happens even though no one asks.

I'm not sure what "other chapter in Genesis" you're referring to, so I don't know how to answer you there.

It's interesting to me that you recognize that Jesus died for the sins of the world, but you think that people aren't forgiven against their will. "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 doesn't say "repentant sinners" or "regretful sinners."

Regarding the "70 times 7" and the unmerciful servant, you're kind of putting yourself in a tight spot, aren't you? God has forgiven you for an unpayable debt of sin. There's no way you could make atonement on your own. Fortunately, we have Jesus who has paid the price for us. If you then decide to withhold forgiveness from anyone who sins against you, aren't you playing the part of the unmerciful servant? Didn't Jesus also pay the price for the person who sins against you?

Why wait for someone to ask you to forgive them? Romans 5:8 shows that God took the initiative in regards to forgiving our sins. Shouldn't we do the same? To reiterate my last post, there are several Scriptures that tell us to simply forgive. Not forgive if they ask, not forgive if they desire forgiveness. Just forgive because God has forgiven you. God took the initiative for you, why wouldn't you do the same?

Hello. Thanks for your response! 1. Luke 5:18/M...

2009-09-18T06:37:33.993-05:00

Hello. Thanks for your response!

1. Luke 5:18/Math 9/Mark 2- The paralytic, I have to stongly suspect, had some agreement in attending the meeting where Jesus was. He might not have "asked" directly (that we are told about anyway) but it sure is likely he had a DESIRE for forgiveness/relationship.

2. The lady in Luke 8 (are you referring to the "sick" lady who touched Jesus's cloak?) I believe also had a desire ("asked"?) for forgivess/relationship.

3. Example of people asking God/others to forgive---Again, I would say there is an ask, or at least a desire, for forgiveness to occur.

In Genesis 50, the story of Jacob encouraging Joseph to forgive his brothers is an example. As you see in v50, Joseph's brothers "threw themselves before him" (a really big ask? at least a big desire on their part to "make thing right")

4. Regarding the other chapter in Genesis, God did not bring the disaster (he "relented") but did he forgive them for what they did? I am not sure that lack of punishement equals forgiveness? Interesting to see the response to a similar ask for forgiveness in v 22-27. Thoughts?

5. Luke 23:24 Jesus desired forgiveness for his captors and also for us----since his death was caused by the sins of all the world. In a sense, we are all responsible for his death. Still, I believe no one is forgiven of their sins AGAINST THEIR WILL. So, this is a bit of a different instance with God the Son praying to God the Father at the time of atonement, asking for forgiveness....I believe for the sins of the world?

6. Regarding the stoning of Stephen, there was an ask, but did God forgive these people...(ie, at that time) AGAINST THEIR WILL? I do believe this prayer likely influenced Saul's conversion, but not his forgiveness from God at that time. Why did Stephen do this? I think the reason was not so that God would forgive them at that time---at that time when they had no desire for forgiveness--but to encourage (?petition) God not to hold it against them. Nevertheless, I do not think it resulted in these folks forgiveness...do you?

7. Mat 6:14 Men ask God for forgiveness, he forgives. Men ask men for forgiveness, we also should readily forgive. Very clearly our responsibility.

8. Luke 6 Again, I believe forgiveness is important, but desire seems a prereq?

9. See #3 in my first blog. Give me your thoughts on the reversal of forgiveness? Maybe I am reading the passage incorrectly, but seems the King reverses his initial forgive. I believe once saved, always saved, but this passage does seem to have reversal of forgiveness.......and this is also the area where we are being instructed on how to forgive? If the first part of the passage directs us on how to forgive (70 X 7) does this part not also show us how to forgive? I know this one is kind of the "devil's advocate" sort of view, but I appreciate your thoughts!!

Thanks again for your blog.

Anonymous, In your first point, you mention that ...

2009-09-16T16:28:25.744-05:00

Anonymous,

In your first point, you mention that in the Bible there's always an "ask" preceding a "forgive." But I don't always see that to be true. There's the paralytic in Matthew 9/Mark 2. There's the woman caught in adultery in Luke 8.

There are also a few examples of people asking God/someone to forgive others (Jacob speaking to Joseph in Genesis 50, Moses speaking to God in Exodus 32, Jesus on the cross in Luke 23:34, Stephen being stoned in Acts 7). In the example of Stephen being stoned, the people were clearly unrepentant, but Stephen asked God to forgive them. Why does he do that?

Regarding your other point, that God uses discernment in deciding who to forgive and who not to forgive, I disagree.

I think God offers everyone complete forgiveness of all of our sins. This is how we should forgive others: completely. But when we don't do that, God doesn't forgive us. See Matthew 6:14-15, or Luke 6:37-38.

Likewise, when we choose not to forgive sometimes, we're forgetting that God forgave us. It always comes back to our own relationship with God. Has God forgiven me? Yes. Then why wouldn't I forgive others?

In thinking through the sermon today, I continue t...

2009-09-13T13:12:35.763-05:00

In thinking through the sermon today, I continue to realize that God forgives us and expects us to forgive others. He expects us to forgive over and over (70 X 7)! I think we have almost become too "mushy" though? Things that I see-

1. God forgives those who request his forgiveness. However, does God forgive those who do not ask forgiveness? Would the Servant who the King forgave (v27) have been "forgiven" if he had not asked ("begged"). I know there may be some value to an individual ("letting go") to forgive others even if they have not been asked for forgiveness but I am not sure that makes it a scriptural thing to do. Of course, it would not make it "ascriptural" either! :) Nevertheless, I think it may be OK not to always forgive. The order for forgiveness seems always there is an "ask" and then a "forgive"....let me know if you see it other ways in the Bible. Does God's grace reach those who do not accept it (i.e., ask for it? i.e., those that shake their fist at God?) Don't misunderstand me please....I am a super fast forgiver and continue to do so personally in areas that are painful to forgive. It does not seem right, however, to always "forgive" those who really do not want it. In fact, maybe we are not entirely showing the type of forgiveness that God gives if we "forgive" in this way? Also, it does not cause me any grief personally if they (the person who needs forgiving) does not come to that point where they want forgiveness. I think people really have responsibility for themselves when it comes right down to it.

2. Interesting, but was the debt really forgiven by the King? I know there are mutiple scriptures which give my assurance that once I am forgiven I am always forgiven, but what about verse 34? The servant (from 27) had his debt canceled, but then it actually was not canceled in verse 34? He did pay back all that he owed, even after the debt was canceled in v27. I believe it is very important to forgive those who ask for it--these verses and series of events prove it!

3. Regarding the paragraph above (the King actually not really canceling permanately the debt of the servant from v27) I believe the King uses his judgement in how to best deal with the situation. I think there are times we need to do this too---sometimes in forgiving when it really has not been asked for, and at other times "withholding" that (or even reversing it) depending on the situation.

I would love comments/thoughts. Tim, always a wonderful job! I understand some of these issues are more suited for small groups/blogs than for a sermon from the pulpit!

Forgiveness is being completely unfair in their fa...

2009-09-06T11:44:53.524-05:00

Forgiveness is being completely unfair in their favor.

Forgiveness seems passive. Their action was aggres...

2009-09-06T11:38:46.017-05:00

Forgiveness seems passive.
Their action was aggressively horrible.

We won't like to admit it, but everyone loves ...

2009-09-04T21:15:48.299-05:00

We won't like to admit it, but everyone loves a good pity-party. Poor, hurt me. It's hard to forgive because I'm focusing all the attention on my hurts and my feelings, not trying to follow God's word and forgive. It's only as we mature (as Christians) do we understand that forgiveness doesn't wash away the pain of the offense, but it frees you from harboring hatred in your heart, which is dangerous in it's own right. It allows God to work on a soft, pliable heart, not hardened by anger, strife, and hurts.

Why is it so hard? Because sometimes forgiving fee...

2009-09-01T14:53:35.532-05:00

Why is it so hard? Because sometimes forgiving feels like you're saying what the person did/said was okay.

I think people don't realize what choosing not to forgive does to them- how it cuases bitterness and eats away at your heart. By withholding forgiveness you're not only choosing to build a wall around yourself, you're also choosing to let what someone else did destroy you.

It's hard to forgive when you know the same th...

2009-08-31T18:46:09.123-05:00

It's hard to forgive when you know the same thing is going to continue to happen over and over. The person is aware that their behavior is hurting you, they say they are sorry but then they put no effort into changing. The cycle continues for days, months, years - you're hurt, they apologize, and then do the same thing again. The bible says to forgive 70 times 7. But when I continually forgive, I feel like I'm either allowing the behavior of the other person or else I'm just letting myself be taken advantage of. And then as time goes by I become resentful.

If the person doesn't even acknowledge that th...

2009-08-31T09:04:17.254-05:00

If the person doesn't even acknowledge that they have hurt you in a 'huge way', should they be confronted, even if it's been over 30 yrs ago? What if bringing it up changes the way their family looks at them, what if they lose their job because of it?

For me it's hard to forgive someone when you k...

2009-08-30T15:08:59.273-05:00

For me it's hard to forgive someone when you know they don't really care to be forgiven because they don't believe that they have hurt you. It's easier to forgive when someone says sorry, but when they don't acknowledge that they did something wrong, it is so hard to move on and forgive.

I struggled with the concept of 'forgiveness&#...

2009-08-29T20:25:38.477-05:00

I struggled with the concept of 'forgiveness' for so many years -- I wanted to be free from resentments. For some reason, I had confused forgiving with forgetting -- how can I just forget something that's impacted me so powerfully that whenever I think about it I get angry again? I finally looked 'forgive' up in the dictionary. One of the definitions has more of a financial context, but it seemed to best fit the way I feel: to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan. I believe that when I've been hurt, I feel like the person owes me something -- an apology or amends of some sort. So I wait around stewing and plotting and scheming how to get even. This is one of the best ways I can think of to NOT have peace of mind. I’m lying awake at night losing sleep while the person I’m angry at is sleeping like a baby! So for self preservation, completely selfish reasons, I decide that that person does not owe me. There is no debt – it’s been forgiven. Then when that person’s face pops into my mind, I don’t start spinning out of control obsessing on the hurt, I start praying for the person – not that they would fall off a cliff but for the things I want for myself – for peace and serenity, etc. In recovery I’ve heard it said that if you have a resentment against someone, pray for the SOB for 30 days and the resentment will go away – it works for me! I was listening to Chip Ingram last evening and he used a quote I’ve always liked, “Holding onto unforgiveness is like drinking poison expecting the other person to die!”

What makes forgiveness so difficult is the pain th...

2009-08-29T10:43:38.832-05:00

What makes forgiveness so difficult is the pain that is caused by the action against us. Was the pain caused deliberately? Has the person asked to be forgiven? How deep does the pain go? I believe forgiveness takes longer based on the answers to these questions. But holding on to forgiveness is holding on to the pain. Forgiveness sets us free. Forgiveness also defines your character. Forgiving others is a gift you give yourself, not necessarily the person you are forgiving.

I try to forgive...why is the pain still there? I&...

2009-08-29T09:24:06.339-05:00

I try to forgive...why is the pain still there? I'm constantly reminded of the hurt. I honestly don't know the barriers that keep me from forgiving this person. It's hard also when it's family.

I think most of us tend to make the same mistake r...

2009-08-28T21:00:04.995-05:00

I think most of us tend to make the same mistake regarding the forgiveness of other's sins against us as we do our perception of God's forgiveness of sins against Him. We like to categorize degrees of severity concerning various acts or sins with reactions ranging from "eh, that's no big deal" to "Pack your bags, I never want to see you again".
Coming to the understanding that even though different actions deem different reactions, no sin is greater than another and if God can forgive those of us who clearly don't deserve His forgiveness, then there's no reason, as imperfect beings, that we can't forgive others.

•Feel like people do not deserve to be forgiven &...

2009-08-28T18:05:20.450-05:00

•Feel like people do not deserve to be forgiven "They made their bed, let them lie in it."
•Think that there has not been enough repentance..."They are not really sorry"
•Revenge..."I want them to pay for what they did."

This is a question for Brett about his comment "I ...

2009-03-27T16:43:00.000-05:00

This is a question for Brett about his comment "I do not subscribe to "Double Predestination"--some to heaven and others to hell". The question this leads me to is if we believe that some are predestined to go to heaven, where does that leave those that are not predestined for heaven? Wouldn't those that aren't predestined for heaven by default then be predestined to hell? Thus being "double predestination"?

I would have trouble agreeing compeltely with Shan...

2009-03-24T19:36:00.000-05:00

I would have trouble agreeing compeltely with Shane's proposition that God chooses people to stand against himself.
Logically, God would then be (practically) forcing people to sin. That sin would be on his "account". And that cannot be. The example of Pharoah would stand against my assertion, but I think there is more to understanding Pharoah than immediately meets the eye (but I'm not a Hebrew scholar).
We just studied Hosea. The God we meet there, who is just, and righteous and holy and even condemning (for a time)also shows himself to be pursuing, wooing, seeking the lost. That matches up with my experience. My joy is that he does that for all people, not just those he knows will eventually be saved.
I would love to see more comments here...